GSB播客｜Think Fast, Talk Smart - 76: 为什么有效的沟通者会把别人放在第一位
来源：斯坦福商学院
人们在进行演讲时很容易感觉自己像是节目中的明星。但根据沟通大师NancyDuarte的说法，演讲者并不是这个故事的主人公。
对于世界知名传播咨询公司DuarteInc的创始人兼首席执行官Duarte而言，有效的沟通需要建立在同理心的基础上，这意味着要把你的听众放在首位。“所有的注意力都集中在我们身上。但实际上，听众才是最重要的人。”她说，“如果他们在离开时并没有接受你的想法，你的想法就会消亡。”
演讲者如何才能利用同理心将听众置于舞台的中央？正如Duarte在本期播客中与主持人MattAbrahams所讨论的那样，你需要在开始说话之前就寻求听众的理解。
以下为本期播客的文字整理稿：
MattAbrahams: Thestorieswetell,thepresentationswedeliver,andtheslidesweshareservetohelpusgetourthoughtsandfeelingsacrosstoothers.Thesuccessofthesevarioustypesofcommunicationcomesfromourabilitytounderstandothers’needs.Today,we’lltalkabouthowempathycanmakeusbettercommunicators.I’mMattAbrahams,andIteachStrategicCommunicationatStanfordGraduateSchoolofBusiness.Welcometo ThinkFast,TalkSmart:ThePodcast.
TodayIamreallylookingforwardtospeakingwithNancyDuarte.NancyistheFounderandCEOofDuarte,Inc.,aworld-renownedcommunicationconsultingfirm.Nancyandherteamhavecoachedcountlesswell-knowncompaniesincludingAppleandSalesforce.TheywereinstrumentalinhelpingtobringtolifeAlGore’s“AnInconvenientTruth,”whichmanyclaimisthemostseenslidepresentationever.Nancyistheauthorofsixmust-readcommunicationbooks,including“slide:ology,”“Resonate,”“Illuminate,”and“DataStory.”
Welcome,Nancy.Iamsuperexcitedtotalktoyou.
NancyDuarte: I’mhappytobehere,too,Matt.I’mexcited.
MattAbrahams: Thanksforbeinghere.Let’sgoaheadandgetstarted.Whenitcomestocommunicationcoaching,youandIareofasimilarvintage.We’vebothbeenatthisforalongtime.Wecanrememberacetateslidesand—
NancyDuarte: [Laughs]
MattAbrahams: —35-millimeterprojectors.
NancyDuarte: Yup.
MattAbrahams: I’mcurioustogetyourthoughtsonwherewearetodayintermsofpeople’sexpectationsforcommunicationinthechannelsthatweuse.
NancyDuarte: Yeah,Ithinkpeopledon’thavepatienceanymoreforapresentationnowwelldone.Weusedtobeabletogetawaywithitbecauseallthepresentationsweresobad.
MattAbrahams: [Laughs]
NancyDuarte: Butnow,peopledon’twanttospendtheirtimeifit’snotbringingvalue.SoIspokeatSouthbySouthwest.SomeonetweetedIwasinteresting,and50peoplewalkedintheroom.Well,thatmeant50peoplewalkedoutofotherrooms.Sopeoplejustdon’thavethepatienceforapresentationwhereitwasn’trootedinempathy.
MattAbrahams: Mm-hmm.
NancyDuarte: Andtheotherthingimpactingalotisvirtualorblended—
MattAbrahams: Mm-hmm.
NancyDuarte: —presenting.And—
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: —you’retalkingtotechnologyinsteadofhavingeyecontact.Anditreallytakesalotofworkandphysicalcontrol,almostlikeyoudoasagolfer,right,whereyouphysicallyhavetocontrolhowyou’reshowingupsothatyoucomeacrossasempatheticthroughthetechnology.Thosearetworeallyimportantthingstoworkon.
MattAbrahams: Thisnotionofbeinginterestingandcapturinginterestandbeingempatheticarereallyimportant.Somanydifferentchannelsforourcommunication.Andwehavetolearnnotjusttostructureourmessages[laughs]butwehavetolearnhowtointeractwiththetechnology.Itmakesitmuchharder.Irememberjusthavingtoprintoutmyslidesand[laughs]putthemontopoftheprojector—
NancyDuarte: Oh,you’reanoverheadtransparencyguy.
MattAbrahams: That’sexactlyright.Iwasbackintheday.Iknowyoubelievestorytellingiscriticaltosuccessfulcommunication.Andyoudidsomereallyimpressiveresearchintowhatmakesforacompellingstory.Canyousharetheinsightsyoufoundandanybestpracticeswecanfollowsowecancraftmoreengagingandinfluentialpresentations?
NancyDuarte: Yeah.IthinkatprobablytherootofeveryanswerI’mgoingtoshareisempathyfirst.
MattAbrahams: Yeah.
NancyDuarte: Sothinkingthroughsometimesasapresenter,wethinkwe’rethehero,right?
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: We’rewelllit.We’reuponastage.Alltheattention’sonus.Butinreality,theaudienceistheone—
MattAbrahams: Mm-hmm.
NancyDuarte: —whoiftheydon’tleavewithyourideaadopted,yourideaisgoingtodie.Soyouhavetoreallyhaveanempathy-firstmindset.Andthenthere’resomeclassicpointsfromstorythatyoucouldpickuparoundpresenting,likemostpresentationsdon’thaveaclearbeginning,middle,andend[laughs]—
MattAbrahams: Right,right.
NancyDuarte: —whichisclassic.Myseminalwork“Resonate”waswhenIdovewaydeeplyinto—
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: —story.Andintheprocessofresearchingstories,Ihadrightbesidemeabookcalled“TheHundredGreatestSpeechesofAllTime.”AndIknewthatthegreatestspeecheshadarhythmandacadenceandtherewasapulsinginthem,andIwantedtofigureoutwhy.AndIfiguredoutthatit’skindofthisriseandfall,thiscatharticriseandfallthatgreatstorytellinghasandthat’s—togetthatyouwouldstructureyourtalktokindofhavethispushandpullbetweenmovingpeopleawayfromwhatcurrentlyistowardwhatcouldbe.Andyouusethatasastructuraldevice.Itturnsyourtalkintoaninfluentialtalkifyou’retryingtotransformpeople.
MattAbrahams: Soyoustartfromaplaceofit’sabouttheaudience,soit’saudiencecentric.Andthenit’sreallystructure.Andthosewho’velistenedin,I’mahugefanofstructure.AndwhatIloveabouttheworkyoudidoftakingpeoplefromwhatistowhatcouldbeandit’snotjustonce.Youdoitmultipletimes.Andthat’swhatreallydrivesinterestand,asyousaidleadstoinfluence.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.Itbringsthatpulsingandthatcadenceanddesire.Yeah.
MattAbrahams: Canyoushareoneortwospeechesthatmanyofusmighthaveheardthatdothatwell?
NancyDuarte: Yeah.SowhenIthoughtI’duncoveredthisstructureormadethiskindofdiscovery,IknewthatitwouldbetrueifitappliedtoDr.King’s“IHaveaDream”speech.
MattAbrahams:Sure.
NancyDuarte: Andinthebusinesscontext,ItookSteveJobs’iPhonelaunchspeech.Sincethen,I’veanalyzedalmostallhundredthatareinthe“HundredGreatestSpeechesofAllTime.”
MattAbrahams: Right.AndwhatIlikealsobeyondhavingthatstructureandusingthatasaguide,what’ssoimportantiswehavetolookbackatotherpresentationsandlearnfromthem.AndIlovethatyoudiscoveredwhatyoudiscoveredbylookingbackbecausealotofjust,especiallyinacademicresearch,werealwayslookingforward.Inthebusinessworld,thestorieswetelloftenusedslidestohelpsupportandreinforcewhatwe’resaying.Yourbook“slide:ology”isseenasthedefinitiveworkonthecraft,atleastfrommyperspective.Canyoushareafewtakeawayswithus?Howdoyoucreatecompellingslides?
NancyDuarte: Ithinkto,whenthatwaswritten,thepresentationsoftwareappsmadereallyfuglyslidesbydefault.Imeanfugly[laughs].
MattAbrahams: Yes,yes.
NancyDuarte: Sobydefault,everythingwasreallyprettytrashy.Andsowhatitdidisitexplainedwhatgooddesignwas.AndmyfavoritequotewasfromJohn[Meta],whosaid,“Wow,it’sthefirsttimesomeone’sactuallymadethebusinesscasefordesign.”Suddenly,whenyoureadthebook,youcankindofseewhyyourslidesareuglyandthenkindofdosomethingaboutit.Sowhatitalsodoes,itmakesyoustepbackandnotthink,oh,Ihavetolayabunchofobjectsonaslide.Itforcesyoutostepbackandconceptualizewhatmightneedtobesaid.
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: SoinsteadofliketheclassichandshakeinfrontofaglobebecauseI’mgoingtotalkaboutpartnerships—
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: —itteachesyouhowtominemapthewordpartnership.Andyourpartnershipmightbemoreliketwopeasinapod,oritmightbeopposingsavorythingslikesaltandpepper.ItmightbeGingerRogers-FredAstaire.Whatisyourpartnershiplike,andwhat’sametaphororaconceptyoucansayaboutyourpartnership,thatwegetpeopleclosertounderstandingwhatthepartnershipis,right?Sothiswholeconceptofneedingtobrainstormout-of-the-boxconceptssoyoushowupunique,youshowupdifferent,youshowupmemorable.That’skindofbiggerthanjustslidemaking.Anditkindofcoversthatwholegamut.
MattAbrahams: Oneofthekeytakeawaysfromthatbookis,similartowhatwe’vetalkedaboutbefore,slidesarenotforyouasapresenter.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.
MattAbrahams: Slidesarefortheaudience.Andsothecreativewaysyou’retalkingabout,thinkingaboutconceptslikepartnership.Irecentlywasdoingsomethingoncollaboration,andIwasGooglingforimagesoncollaboration.AndIfoundsomanyhandshakings,high-fivings.Finally,allofasudden,Igotthispeanutbutterandjelly,catsupandmustard.Andallofasudden,Ibegantothinkdifferentlyaboutcollaboration.Sojustgettingpeopletothinkaboutslidesbeingfortheiraudienceandnotjustateleprompteroratool.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.Anddoyouneedslides?LikeIthinkwhenweupdatethisbook,whichwe’reworkingonandthinkingthrough,likewehadamultinational—leaderofamultinationalcompanycometousfromIndiawhowasgoingtospeakwiththeCEOoftopfive[brands]intheworld—
MattAbrahams: Yeah.
NancyDuarte: —Icanjustsaythat.Hewaslike,“Okay,I’mgoingtogomeetwiththeCEO.Ineedfiveslides.”Andwe’relike,“You’regoingtobeintheCEO’soffice,askingforahundredmillion.Putthecomputeraway.”
MattAbrahams: Yeah.
NancyDuarte: Andthenwejustrehearsedhimsketching.Sohejumpeduptothewhiteboard.Hejustgrabbedapieceofpaper.Hejustdrewtheconcepts.Andhewalkedawaywiththepromisedofahundredmillion.Andhehadeyecontact.Hehadempathy.Theguycouldseehispassion.Otherwise,theywouldbesittingsidebyside,lookingatalaptopandnothavebuiltthecamaraderieandcredibilitythatittakestoreallyconveyamessage.
MattAbrahams: Thefactthatyou,whoareassociatedwithbeautiful,wonderful,impactfulslides,sayingmaybeyoudon’tneedslidesisalessoneverybodyneedstothinkabout.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.
MattAbrahams: Yourunalargeorganizationthat’sfocusedoncommunication.AndIwouldimagineyouandyouremployeeshaveahighbar,high—
NancyDuarte: Yeah.
MattAbrahams: —expectationsforqualityandclarityandyourcommunicationinternally.Whataresomeapproachesyouyourselfusetobettercommunicatewithyouremployees?Andwhattechniquesdoyousuggestotherleadersuseintheirinternalcommunication?
NancyDuarte: Ilovethisquestionbecausepeopleaskmeallthetime,“What’sthehardestpresentationyou’veeverdelivered?”It’slike—
MattAbrahams: Yeah.
NancyDuarte: —everyinternaloneIeverhavetodobecauselikeIcangetpaidmoneytotravelandspeak,andpeoplearelikeeatingoutofmyhand.ButwhenIstandupandspeaktomyemployees,theyknowI’mgoingtoaskthemtochangeinsomeway.Andalso,asapresentationcompany,ifIdon’thavegreatslides,Idon’thaveagreatnarrative,andIdon’tnailmydelivery,it’slike[laughs]—ohmyGod,theexpectationsonmeasthepresentationladyarejustoffthecharts.Andsothecalltoactionalwaysusuallyinvolves—likemostCEO’sdon’tpresentunlessthere’sacalltoactionthat’saskingthemtochangeinsomeway.AndsoIhavetohaveagreatstructure,greatstory.Andoneofthethingsthatwe’rereallygoodatisdoinglisteningtours.Wedolisteningtours,wedosurveys,andwehaveacultureclub.AndsoIhavemultiplewaystotapintothesentiment.Icantestearlymessagesaboutthechangethatwe’regoingtobegoingthrough.Icangetreallygoodfeedback.Wedoanannualkickoffmeetingeverysingleyear.
NancyDuarte: WedoittheweekofMartinLutherKing’sbirthdaybecause—it’s“IHaveaDream,”right?Sowecastthedreamandthevisionforthenextyearduringthatweek.Sowenailthetalk,whichisusually90minutes.Peoplegetexcited.ButthenwehavewhatwecallShopDaythatfollowsit.
MattAbrahams: Hm.
NancyDuarte: Nowthatwe’revirtual,itspreadsacrossafewdays,likeafewhoursforafewdays.Andit’stoimmersetheminthedream.HowdoIimmersethemsotheycouldseeitthroughoureyes?Andwefoundthatwhenwedeliverthetalkandthenimmersetheminwhatit’sgoingtolooklikewhenthisdreamisrealizeditgivesthemfuelforthewholeyeartokeepgoing,keeptheirheadinthegame.Imean,wekeepdoingtheinternalcommsaroundit,butjustthatabilitytodeclareafutureandthenimmersetheminitreallypropelsusreallyfarandgets—geteveryonealigned.
MattAbrahams: Thethingthatstrikesmemostaboutwhatyoujustsaidisthatyouspendalotoftimethinkingaboutyourinternalcomms.
NancyDuarte: Ohyes.
MattAbrahams: AndIthinkmanyleadersseeitasanecessaryevil—
NancyDuarte: Ohno.
MattAbrahams: —andsomethingthattheyjustspend—justgottagetitdone—
NancyDuarte: Uh-huh.
MattAbrahams: —versusspendingthethoughtfultime.
NancyDuarte: Andwehaveamonthlymeeting,too.Andwecarveouthalfofoneofourthree-hour-longexecstojustworkonthemessagingforthosemeetingsbecausethey’rethat—they’rejustthatimportant,[unintelligible].
MattAbrahams: Sotakingthetime,being—
NancyDuarte: Ohyeah.
MattAbrahams: —beingthoughtful.Ilikehowyoufocusgroupandlisten.
NancyDuarte: Mm-hmm.
MattAbrahams: Tellmealittlebitmoreaboutacultureclub.Thatbringsmebacktomyyouthwhen—
NancyDuarte: Yeah,right?
MattAbrahams: —therewasaband.
NancyDuarte: Ididn’tcomeupwiththename.Theynamedthemselvesthat.SoIheardIndraNooyispeakatSherylSandberg’shouse.Sheusedtoinviteallthesewomentoherhouse.ShesaidthatoutofallofthehundredsofthousandsofPepsiemployees,therewereabout40-50ofthemthatactuallydrovetheculture,whichwassointerestingtomethattheywereactualdriversandonesthatmadetheculturehealthyandallofthat.Andthatalwaysstruckme,whichmademereallyproudofthefactthatwehavethiscommittee.It’salittlevolunteerarmyofmystrongemployeeswhoaretheonesthatkindofknowlaterallyacrossthewholeorganizationhoweveryone’sdoing.Andtheymeetontheirown.Sowhattheydoistheyaretheoneswhodesignthisimmerse.Sowesaythevision,andthentheyimmerseit.Theycomeupwiththeconcepts.Theycomeupwiththemetaphors.Theycomeupwiththejobaids,theactivities.Andyeah,they’retheoneswholoveandcareenoughaboutthecompanythattheydrivethatwholething.
MattAbrahams: Coolpractice.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.
MattAbrahams: AndIcansee—
NancyDuarte: It’sbeautiful.
MattAbrahams: —howthatcanreallyempowertheemployeesbutgiveyou—
NancyDuarte: Uh-huh.
MattAbrahams: —insightinto—
NancyDuarte: Itdoes.
MattAbrahams: —whatyoushouldbethinking.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.
MattAbrahams: That’sgreat.
NancyDuarte: Itdoes.
MattAbrahams: Thankyou.
NancyDuarte:Mm-hmm.
MattAbrahams: Regardlessofhowwellthoughtoutyourpresentationsare—
NancyDuarte: Mm-hmm.
MattAbrahams: —weoftenrunintohesitationandresistance.Howdoyouadvisepeopletothinkaboutandaddresstheseaudienceconcernsthatcancomeup?
NancyDuarte: ThemostimportantthingistopulltogetherwhatIcallaskepticcommittee.
MattAbrahams: Okay.
NancyDuarte: Soyoucomeupwithpeoplewhoareactualskeptics,ifyouhavethatkindofahealthypsychologicalsafeculture,oryoucomeupwithpeoplewhocanplayaskeptic—
MattAbrahams: Mm-hmm.
NancyDuarte: —andjustcomeupwithsomeofthemostridiculousthings.Andpeopleactuallythinkthose.Likewethinkthey’reridiculous.Butsomeoneactuallyfeelsthatwayorthinksthatway.
MattAbrahams: Mm.
NancyDuarte: Andsowehavepeopletrytoputoutonthetableeverysinglewaysomeonemightresisteverysinglewaysomeonemightbehurt,everysinglewaysomeonemightentrench.Andthenweputthatintothepresentation.Let’ssayyou’regoingtopresentsomedata,butit’skindofcontroversial.Youhavetosay,IchosethisdatasetbecauseX,Y,Z,M,L,N,O,P.IrejectedthisdatasetbecauseX,Y,Z,youknow.Andweneedtobereallyhonestandforthrightaboutwhatwehavechosentorejectandwhy.Soit’snotallaboutpushingpeopletowardssomething.Youalsohavetogetpeopletoletgoofsomethings—
MattAbrahams: Mm.
NancyDuarte: —andletthem—letgoofthisdatasetorletgoofthisoldnormthatusedtobeinourculture,orletgoofthiscustomer,likewhateverthosethingsare.Sometimesmovingforwardisalotaboutlettinggo.
MattAbrahams: That’sareallypowerfulthoughtthatalotofusfocusonpushing,pushing,pushing—
NancyDuarte: Mm-hmm.
MattAbrahams: —inthedirectionwewanttogo.Andyetsometimeswewouldbebetterservedtofocusonthethingsholdinguswhereweare.
NancyDuarte: Andseverthosethings.Sothat’swhat“Illuminate”wasalotabout.AlotofpeopleforgothowharditwasforSteveJobstomovepeoplefromMacOS9toMacOS10.Andliterally,hewasgettingfrustratedwiththedevelopercommunity.Heliterallyhadacoffinonstagewithstainedglass,playedeeriemusic,andheldafuneralforMacOS9[laughs],right?
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte:It’slikeletitgo.Itis—
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: —gone.Moveon.Andsothere’spowerfulthingsandwaysyoucancommunicateoutsideofapresentation—
MattAbrahams: Yeah.
NancyDuarte: —likeaceremony.Andthatreallyworked.
MattAbrahams: Andthefactthatyoupullskepticstogetherandencourage—
NancyDuarte: Exactly.
MattAbrahams: —peopleishelpful.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.
MattAbrahams: ThisnotionofopeninguptheinsightthroughyourculturecommitteethroughbringingskepticstogetherIthinkcouldbereallyhelpful.Ihearthatyou’reexpandingyourofferingstoincludetrainingsonlistening.Canyoutalkmoreabouttheimportanceoflisteningincommunicationandhighlightoneortwokeylisteningtechniquesweshouldallworkon?
NancyDuarte: Wecontendthatbuildingonactivelistening—this[isan]insteadofthat,yeah,makeitreallyclearyou’relisteningandalloftheactivelisteningtools,thatbuildingonthatishowyourespondispartoflistening.Andevenpartofactivelisteningsaystowithholdjudgment.Butwhatifthepersontalkingtoyouwantsyoutojudgetheiridea?Likewhatifthat’stheverythingthey’reseeking?Sotwogalsonmyteam,[Megan]and[Nicole],didacoupleofyearsofresearch,prettydeepresearch—
MattAbrahams: Yeah.
NancyDuarte: —andhavebuiltanassessmentwhereyoucouldfigureoutwhatyourdefaultlisteningstyleis.Soyouhaveoneoffourdefaultlisteningstyles.Wedefineempathy—ohlook,empathycameupagain—
MattAbrahams: Yeah[laughs],yeah.
NancyDuarte: —wedefineempathyasknowyourself,understandothers,andadaptyourself.Soit’salittlebitmoreIcan’twalkinyourshoesifIdon’tknowwhatshoesIwear,[laughs]youknowmyselfsothatIcanstepintoyours.
MattAbrahams: Andbytheway,youhavesomereallycoolshoeson.Thankyou.
NancyDuarte: Ohyeah.I’vegot—mygrandkidspickedtheseoutforme.
MattAbrahams: [You’vegot]great—.
NancyDuarte: Sobyunderstandinghowyoushowupasadefault,asalistener,andthenIcanassessyou,canunderstandyouandhowyouwantmetolisten,Ineedtoadapt.Somydefaultistoadvance.LikeIlistentoadvance.Andaclosesecondofmineisdiscern.Well,IdothatbecauseI’maCEO.Peoplearecomingtomewithquestionsallthetime—discern-advance,discern-advance,advance-discern.Andthat’sjustmymodalityallthetime.
Butthere’salotoftimesmyexecteamdoesn’tneedthatfromme.OnetimeIwasawayforliketendaysonvacation,offthegrid—whichisreallyrare—cameback;theywereupdatingme.Andtheydidn’twantmetojumpinandsaythis-this-this.Theywantedmetobe—supportthemandsaygoodjob.Theydidn’tneedmetodomydefault.SotheacronymisSAID,S-A-I-D—Support,Advance,Immerse,orDiscern.Andthosearethefourtypes.Andthenyoumaywantmetoshowupandimmerseandnotdiscern.SoIneedtounderstandthesituation—lookatyouthroughanewlens.AndthenhowIrespondtoyoumakesyoufeellikeIlistened,oritmakesyoufeelIdidn’t.It’spowerful.It’schangedmeasaleader.It’schangedmeasamother.Itchangedmyrelationshipwithmychildren.It’sbeenreallygoodforme,so—.
MattAbrahams: Well,itsoundslikeitwouldbegoodforallofus,just—
NancyDuarte: Itwouldbe.
MattAbrahams: —takingthetimetounderstandhowwelistenandhowweneedtoadapttoconnectwithotherpeople.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.And[unintelligible]—Imean,it’s[only]researchbased.
MattAbrahams: Right.
NancyDuarte: Itgrowssales.Ithelpsemployeeengagement.Allthethingsthatpeoplearehurtingrightnow,likereallyhurtingon,itholdsthekey.Soit’sexciting.
MattAbrahams: ThemoreandmoreIdotheworkIdo,themoreandmoreIdothispodcast,themoreandmorelisteningbecomesacriticalelement.I’mreallycurioustogettingyouranswersonthethreequestionsIaskeverybodywhojoinsme.Areyouupforthat?
NancyDuarte: Yeah[laughs].
MattAbrahams: Allright.Ifyouweretocapturethebestcommunicationadviceyoueverreceivedasafive-toseven-wordpresentationslidetitle,whatwouldthatbe?
NancyDuarte: [Laughs]Soitdoesn’tmeanInecessarilyhaveamasteryofthistitle,butIwouldsayitisseekfirsttounderstand,andthenspeak.
MattAbrahams: Seekfirsttounderstand,andthenspeak.Sothat’sallaboutempathy.Buttheseekingpartseemstometobeevenmoreactivethanjustsaybeempathetic,butseektounderstand.
NancyDuarte: LikeIthinkI’mworkingonstayingcuriousandstayingreallycuriousandnotshowingupthinkingIknow.Andsothat’swhyit’sseekingtounderstand.
MattAbrahams: That’sreallypowerful.AndIagree,it’smuchmoreactive.Andthefactthatyouhavetobecuriousfirst.Questionnumbertwo,andthisI’mgoingtobereallyfascinatedbecauseyouhaveworkedwithjustsomeamazingcommunicators.
NancyDuarte: [Laughs]Yeah.
MattAbrahams: Whoisacommunicatorthatyouadmire,andwhy?
NancyDuarte: MyfavoritecommunicatorontheplanetisScottHarrison.HeistheCEOofcharity:water.Andhestartedthisnonprofityearsago.He’slikeaclubsterinNewYork,hasanexistentialmomentwhenhewasontheMercyShipseeingsmallchildrendrinkfilthywater.Whathedoes,hisuseofstoryandhowhecommunicatesandhowherevealsinformationovertimeisunprecedented.Hejustweavesit.Sohe’sgotthemasterstructureandcanweavestoryinsoelegantly.Andhetellspersonalstories.Likeoneofmyfavoritemomentswaswhenhehadbeendoingitfortenyears,andhewasevengettingnumb.Youknow,youcangotoTEDandtheseconferences.Andeventually,it’slikeyoujusthavetogettoaplacewhereitrollsoffyourback.Sohehadkindoflosthisownlikefire—hefelthisownfire—.Sohewentoutandsoughtoutastory.HetraveledbacktoAfricabecausehe’dalwaysheardthisrumorofastorythatwasreallytragicaboutthisgalseekingoutwater.Andhewentandfoundthatstoryandrekindofgulpedthatstoryinagain.Anditgavehimtheemotionalenergytokeepgoing.
MattAbrahams: Soundslikewonderfulworkhe’sdoingandwonderfulstorytelling.
NancyDuarte: Yeah.Yeah.
MattAbrahams: Andhe’skeepinghimselfimmersedinit.Whatarethefirstthreeingredientsthatgointoasuccessfulcommunicationrecipe?
NancyDuarte: Well,youprobablywouldguess,thefirstone’sempathy.
MattAbrahams: Yes.
NancyDuarte: [Laughs]Andincorporatestory.Storyframework,storystructure,andstoriesintoit,likeplantlittlestoriesthroughout.Andthenalsoyourdelivery.Sohowyoucomeacross,iteitherdiminishesyourcredibilityoramplifiesyourcredibility.Andsojustmakesurethatyou’recomingacrossthewaytheaudiencewantsit.NowwhenIsaydelivery,Idon’tjustmeanstandanddeliverandeyecontact.Andmaybethebestthingyoucouldhavedoneissendaslidedoc,apresentationtoreadahead,andtheydon’tevenneedtomeet.Likedeliveryisexpansive.Itcouldbeavideo.It[couldbesend]avideo.Soit’sdeliveryalsokindofmeansthemediumandnotjustyourbodylanguageandstufflikethat.
MattAbrahams: Mm.Soempathyandlistening,storyandstructure,anddeliveryandreallythinkingaboutthemediumofthemessage.Very,veryhelpful.Well,Nancy,thiswholethingwashelpful.AndIreallyappreciateyoutakingtimeandsharingwithushowwecanallbemoreempathetic,curious,andpowerfulcommunicators.Thankyou.
NancyDuarte: Oh,itwasfuntobehere,Matt.
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